Oral History: Sister Margaret Anne Hanley
Dublin Core
Title
Oral History: Sister Margaret Anne Hanley
Subject
Sister Margaret Anne Hanley
Description
An oral history of Sister Margaret Anne Hanley, a Sister of Charity of Seton Hill from 1924 until 1994. The interview was conducted by Sister Jean Augustine on June 14, 15, and 17, 1984.
Sister Margaret Anne Hanley - born Mary Margaret Hanley on June 26, 1903 - entered the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill in September of 1924. She received a bachelor's degree of English and French from Seton Hill College in 1924 and a bachelor's degree in music, also from Seton Hill, in 1926. She taught music at a number of schools in both Pennsylvania and Arizona. Sister Margaret Anne died on June 20, 1994.
Creator
Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill
Publisher
Archives of the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill
Date
1984/06/14
1984/06/15
1984/06/17
Rights
All rights belong to the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill, Greensburg, Pennsylvania.
Format
Audio cassette tape
Type
Oral history
Identifier
OH-34
Oral History Item Type Metadata
Interviewer
Sister Jean Augustine
Interviewee
Sister Margaret Anne Hanley
Location
Assumption Hall
Transcription
OH 34-1 1
This is part of the Oral History recording done in Assumption Hall on Thursday morning, June 14, 1984, with Sister Margaret Anne Hanley. Sister Jean Augustine is conducting the interview.
SJ: Good morning, Sister Margaret Anne.
SMA: Good morning Sister. Would you like to hear something abut Sister Muriel?
SJ: No. Eventually, yes. I would like to hear about Sister Muriel; that would be very good. But one of the things I wanted to talk with you today Cremember we mentioned this oral history project that the Congregation has undertaken? We want to keep as much history as we can for the future of the Congregation. I would like to talk to you a little bit this morning about your early recollections, your earliest Balmost like an autobiography. I noticed in your file that you came to the Congregation from Coshockton, Ohio.
SMA: Right.
SJ: And our years when I used to be a piano student of yours, when I used to practice. . .
SMA: Oh, yes? I=d like to know that day.
SJ: You and I talked about your love for Ohio. Can you tell me a little about your earliest remembrances, your history?
SMA: Starting with my entrance in the community?
SJ: Oh, even before that.
SMA: Before that? We had an ordinary family, but a rather large one- - three boys and three girls. We had a delightful homelife, very close, lots of fun. I was very close to my brothers, especially; my sisters were much older. They entered the family earliest of all.
SJ: Where did you come in the family?
SMA: Last. But not least, of couse.
SJ: Of course not. You=re an Irish family?
SMA: Yes, my father was right from Limerick, Ireland, and my mother=s relations, grandmother and grandfather, were from Derry, Ireland, I think or Kerry; I don=t know which.
SJ: Your mother was born, though, in this country.
SMA: Cresson, around there.
SJ: Yes, what was her maiden name? Do you remember?
SMA: Mary O=Connor.
SJ: That=s as Irish as you can get. Your father was . . .
SMA: Thomas Hanley. Hanley is not an Irish name Bit=s more English to my mind. But they say, ANo, that=s not correct. It was straight from Ireland.@
SJ: What did your father do for a living?
SMA: Well, at his work he was a - - - - - ; he was everything. He started out on the railroad, walking on the tops of the cars till he had my mother a nervous wreck, so the urged him to get another job. Then he went into ordinary grocery store business and from there, I think, to the mill. He bought a mill in cahoots, in partnership, with another man. Finally the man dropped out and her had the whole mill which was a very small mill, a flour mill.
He had all kinds of wheat, especially.
SJ: Oh.
SMA: Oh, brother, was it good, real molasses in it!
SJ: Mixed in with the buckwheat? Isn=t that great!
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SJ: Is that in the farm country, Coshockton?
MA: I think it definitely is. We were not farmers, but we were so closely related to them. They came down our front street and sold everything they had from the cart. So, it was like living on a farm; but she knew that farm work was too heavy for her
SJ: Was Coshockton a small town?
SMA: 12,000, it ran generally, but now it=s grown quite. I think it=s up in 30,40, 50 thousand.
But, they moved; the people we knew have moved to the elite part of town, the outside, the borders.
SJ: Your birthday, I know is in June. . . June 26. You don=t want to tell me what year?
SMA: Yes.
SJ: Will you? What year?
SMA: I=m going to be one more year in a couple weeks. That was 1903 I was born.
SJ: 1903 - - so you are going to be 81.
SMA: 81. Very good arithmetic.
SJ: Was there a Catholic parish and school?
SMA: As far as I know, and of course I wasn=t in on everything. There was a Catholic parish and we started the school when we got there. My father needed a school for his children and he was instrumental in helping to urge the priest to build a school. And we had a very small school - - Dominican sisters from Columbus, Ohio, and it went just beautifully, I think.
SJ: Was that Sacred Heart Parish?
SMA: Yes, how did you know?
SJ: I checked on your. . . I checked your dossier. Sacred Parish, Coshockton, Ohio.
SMA: Now, here=s an interesting part. They had even a three-year high school. But three years stuck with us all through my life. When it came up to high school time, I wanted a Catholic education completed. I had to go away to get a fourth year, so I went to St. Mary of the Springs, Shepherd, Ohio, and got my fourth year high. I had a complete Catholic High, and then on to Seton Hill.
SJ: I see. In that three-year high school, was that an academic high school or a commercial high school?
SMA: An academic high school, and a whiz of a teacher! She handled. . .now, don=t be shocked because I think we were well taught. She handled three years high school all by herself.
SJ: One woman?
SMA: One woman.
SJ: Taught all the subjects?
SMA: All the subjects, plus a - - - - - - - -course.
SJ: Oh, my! How large was the school? Can you think about that?
SMA: Eight grades . . . and an average of, maybe at the most, 10 pupils in a grade.
SJ: O.K. And in the High school. . . would that be about the same?
SMA: About the same.
SJ: Thirty students altogether.
SMA: At the most, I think.
SJ: And she did the whole high school part?
SMA: She did the whole high school part. But she was a brain beyond a brain.
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SJ: And she was a Dominican? You would have had algebra, and science?
SMA: Right, we had everything, except the fourth year high, except science - - no lab.
SJ: No lab. Now, when you went to St. Mary of the Springs, that was also Dominican, and finished your fourth year of high school there.
SMA: Yes.
SJ: Was that a boarding school?
SMA: Yes.
SJ: Did the rest of your family do that?
SMA: Yes.
SJ: They went to boarding school. What about the boys?
SMA: They went to Cleveland, Ohio, to the Jesuits. . . St. Ignatius, I think.
SJ: Coshockton - - Is that in the Cleveland Diocese or Columbus?
SMA: Columbus, I think.
SJ: Columbus. Okay. Now, your music. . . do you remember when that started?
SMA: When I was seven years old. Moreover, they allowed me to practice in the convent.
It=s evident they were either deaf or far away.
SJ: Who taught you. . . one of the sisters?
SMA: Dominicans.
SJ: Was the rest of your family musically inclined, or were you the only one who wanted to take up piano?
SMA: I think Delci would have loved it; I don=t think she had the opportunity. They were in the public high.
SJ: I see. Did you have a piano at home?
SMA: Yes, not much of one, but good enough . . old, upright.
SJ: Did you practice willingly, or did your mother have to get after you?
SMA: Well, this is queer, and very good management- - - I=ve never been able to copy it. But, they allowed me to practice right in the convent.
SJ: Ah, so that=s where you got your practice in, and there was no tomfoolery there.
SMA: No, wasn=t that lovely! And I didn=t have to stop to cook or scrub, like some people I know, very close to me; there was no interference.
SJ: And you liked it very much?
SMA: Ohh! We loved it. Half the time, another girl my age, her name was Kimmie?, would come in and practice with me. We=d do duets and make it a little bit livelier.
SJ: Was the lesson a weekly lesson and a half hour?
SMA: I think it was two lessons a week, a half hour each for something like 50 cents apiece.
Wow! The way we cheated those good sisters. Nobody knew about that.
SJ: Seven - - You would have been probably in second grade.
SMA: Yes, and I=d be dismissed from the room, run around the corner and go into the convent.
SJ: Oh, in those days they allowed the children out of school for lessons.
SMA: They did, and I don=t think they lost out one speck- - -a little bit of propaganda in there.
SJ: All right. So you were interested in the piano. Did you study any other musical instrument?
SMA: No, I was at Seton Hill - - -we=d grab Sister Carinne=s violin and practice on it.
SJ: So, at St. Mary of the Springs, Shepherd, Ohio, is where you finished your fourth year.
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SMA: That fourth year=s very interesting. It was empty, you know. And I went to St. Mary=s for the fourth year. Then the priest said, AWhat=s the matter with us? If we can send our boys and
girls away to get a fourth year, why can=t we have our own fourth year. He delivered one wonderful sermon and got his fourth year and a science lab.- - a little bit of extra money for that small town, but they did it.
SJ: And from that time on, then, on one had to leave Coshockton for a parochial high school. They could get the four years right there.
SMA: Isn=t that a great love for their religion and all - - to push them into that. I thought that was great.
SJ: Okay. Now the other- - - on this connection with Seton Hill. I=m interested in that. You lived in Ohio; your mother had come from Pennsylvania. Your father, I think you told me once, came from Ireland, and settled somewhere around.. .
SMA: Dennison, Ohio, I think.
SJ Dennison, and . . . .
SMA: And also the tops of the trains- - - Mother got him off that. In Dennison, I think he went right to the grocery store to make some money.
SJ: How did he meet your mother, then?
SMA: That was all done in Cresson, and a very interesting story. Mother=s brothers came home one day and said, @You might as well call off the wedding, Mary. Tom=s gone to Ohio.@ And that was two days before the wedding. So Mother said she was much flabbregasted, but she tried to take it easy and go on with her work. And here Dad had to go to Coshockton, Ohio, to get the Baptismal record for mother. They had to have permission from the priest to get married because they were in another. . .no, because she was underage - - 17, and he was 10 years older at least, 27 or so.
SJ: And they were married in Cresson?
SMA: They were married in Cresson.
SJ: He might have met her when he was traveling on those trains. Maybe he had stopped there.
SMA: Oh, he worked around there, too.
SJ: That=s probably it.
SMA: I think, but I=m not too sure how he met her. She was really lovely to look at. Beautiful, in fact. I looked at her picture many a day and I thought, AWho is that?@ So, one day when she was in the room, I said, AWho is that beautiful lady?@ and that tickled her to pieces.
SJ: I=m sure.
SMA: It was a portrait of her.
SJ: In your home. Well, then, you would have graduated from high school in 1919, 20, 21,
something like that?
SMA: It was a year earlier than I should have because they shortened the course; they put the 7th
5
and 8th together so we could all move on, and we didn=t seem to miss anything. I don=t know, maybe we did.
SJ: Well, then, you would have been probably one of the first students to come to Seton Hill College, because it started around 1919.
SMA: I think we were. There were four ahead of us to graduate in that first class.
SJ: In that first class. Well how did you get to know about Seton Hill? You were out in St. Mary of the Springs?
SMA: I had a dear cousin who spent the summers with me often- - - and this summer we were both out of high school and we had to find a college. So we searched the books - -AAmerica@ and all the rest of the Catholic books we had around, for ads. And we wanted, not a high rating - - we didn=t know enough to pick a college with a high ratingB just a near one to home. Ans so Seton Hill was the nearest. I would have gone to St. Mary of the Springs for college but it wasn=t quite finished. They had to have another year. Now that=s called fate, or Providence or whatever. I would have been a Dominican.
SJ: The way the Lord wants it. You know, in those days not too many women went to college.
SMA: Very true.
SJ: Was your family favorable? Did your other sisters go?
SMA: My sister Veronica was killed. She had the brains of the family, I think, and I think she was always a little jealous, but she kept it down. But she would have loved to have gone on.
SJ: And your father and mother were both very favorable. . .
INTERRUPTION
We were talking about the fact that you and your cousin had done some research to find a college. I=m interested in the fact that it had to be a Catholic college.
SMA: Well, we were both from Catholic families. Her father was my father=s brother. And my father was just rampant on the question; he had to have a Catholic college. He was very, very Catholic all his life.
SJ: All right, now, that=s interesting. You would have come about 1920, I=ll say.
SMA: Well, wait now, I entered school at 7. But we had not the regular courses, not 8 & 4, but 8 & 3. So, how much does that make?
SJ: That=s eleven years- - -1920, approximately. We can check that out later.
The college was very small B Administration Building, Maura Hall, St. Mary=s Hall.
That=s probably all the buildings that were there. Right? Maybe. . .No. . .
SMA: I don=t remember the buildings so well. We had classrooms. We went to Dr. Reeves= classroom.
SJ: You boarded there. Where did you sleep when you were in college? Do you remember?
Administration?
SMA: Administration. 2nd floor. Double room; my cousin was with me.
SJ: Who were some fo the Sisters you remember from those early days?
SMA: Schwester.
SJ: Ah, God rest her.
SMA: AGod rest her=s right.
SJ: Did she teach you?
SMA: No. She taught German. I took German later on after I was finished with a college degree.
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I wanted to know some German. She was a wonderful teacher. Father Reeves, of course
and Father Sullivan.
SJ: Sister Francesca?
SMA: No, she didn=t teach; she was the dean. I mean I don=t know that she taught. Who else?
SJ: Would Sister Stanislaus have been there then?
SMA: Yes, but she didn=t teach me, I don=t believe. I went to her for a special course. After I went out West, I had to have history, and I didn=t have it, so I went to Stannie and she gave me a special . . .no, I was in a course with her. She had another class going and I took it.
SJ: You would have decided, when you were going to Seton Hill, to take music lessons because you had been studying it?
SMA: I think it was sort of thrust upon me by Sr. Cecilia Schwab. She used to thrust things upon people.
SJ: They would have looked at your high school record and decided.
SMA: I think it was. . . this is sort of unkind to say, but I think there was a need of building up the music academy, the music courses in Seton Hill, and they were picking out obviously easy people to teach. I could memorize easily; that=s about my only qualification for music, really.
I had Mrs. - - - -. I was practicing about 4 or 5 hours a day. That shows the interest to probably go ahead with it. And Sr. Cecilia stepped in on me and wondered why I was there so long. So she was getting my background right then. I didn=t realize it. I was rather sassy; I didn=t know she was the head of the department, and she taught me the following year. So I had her a couple of years and Mrs. Caveny? at the time.
SJ: With the music department- - -I guess Cecilian Hall would have been there, and the practice studios?
SMA: The practice suite was around it, in the back; we practiced in there.
SJ: And those rooms are still there, too, and still used.
SMA: They were well built.
SJ: Were some of the studios? I remember Sister Ann Regina=s studio used to be in the Irish Room on the parlor floor.
SMA: Yes, well, Sr. Cecilia taught in there.
SJ: In the Irish studio?
SMA: I guess she followed Sr. Ann Regina, I don=t know.
SJ: Or Sr. Ann Regina followed her, I think.
SMA: Yes, that=s right. That was her place.
SJ: Would Sister Helen Cecilia have been- - - She wouldn=t have been teaching; she was younger, about your same age.
SMA: Yes, different category. I didn=t know Helen very well at all. . .
Something running around in my mind. . . But, uh, we=ll skip it.
SJ: Some of the teachers you had?
SMA: Sr . Cecilia and Miss Caveny taught with the same idea in mind Chigh pressure. I can remember walking down the hall in a rage after one of the lessons and I ran into - - - -
who was the one in charge, little, red-haired, down in the office. . .
SJ: Eucharia?
SMA: Eucharia! I said, AWhat this place needs is a vocational advisor. I shouldn=t have been in music at all!@ And I left her staring. But that=s the way I really feel, even yet. They took us in the wrong direction- - - capable of being taught instead of based on talent or. . . .
SJ: Interest?
SMA: Maybe, but I practiced for hours, so there=s nothing the matter with my brain.
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SJ: Did you like it? Did you like. . . .
SMA: I love music. I just loved practicing.
SJ: Do you remember some of the other teachers? I suppose they gave you instrumental lessons. You mentioned getting a violin from Sister Corinne.
SMA: That was out of the course. That was after I finished. We did that for fun one summer.
SJ: As a college student, as a young girl there, was there an orchestra?
SMA: The Glee Club was very interesting. We had a wonderful man, and copies for all of us- - -
That was a real luxury - - -to have your own copy, and he got us in part singing right away and didn=t waste time. Oh, it was lovely. Wonder he was? I don=t remember his name.
SJ: Would you have been inlee Club all four years of college?
SMA: Oh, yes.
SJ: And you had recitals, I=m sure. How did you like that?
SMA: Hated it!
SJ: But you liked to practice! Was it the pressure?
SMA: I loved to practice; there was no pressure on that.
SJ: But the other pressure - - to excel, or to be . . .
SMA: None, I mean I didn=t respond to it.
SJ: You just turned the other way.
SMA: Yeah, I just loved my work. And I didn=t care about associating with others. I had very few friends at the end of the four years because I spent my time in the music suite.
SJ: Now, were you being prepared to be a piano teacher?
SMA: No.
SJ: Just knowledge of music.
SMA: And memorize. You see, we had to memorize to perform, and we had to give a recital every year, a whole recital. So, I don=t remember much about my freshman recital, but we had to have it; I know. And sophomore, and it came to junior, the memorizing was pretty stiff. Miss Caveny thought I=d better spend the summer helping to memorize for the following year, so I did. I went to her place close to Braddock, went through East Liberty to get there, and she taught me there. So I got some memorizing started for that next year.
SJ: That summer. Did you live somewhere in Pittsburgh while you did that?
SM A: Yes, a friend of my mother, Nancy- - - Netty Brown.
SJ: Miss Caveny- - - I never heard that name, but she must have been there the whole time you were in college.
SMA: Yes.
SJ: Any other sisters that were in the music department? Cecilia Clare Ott? Would she have been in the music department then?
SMA: Yes.
SJ: Did she teach you?
SMA: No.
SJ: Sister Ann Regina?
SMA: Yes.
SJ: What about that Sister Angelica? Was she a musician?
SMA: The old Sister Angelica- - -was quite a musician, taught singing, I think. Never taught me, but everyone loved her, looked up to her. That=s about all I can remember of her.
SJ: Did you take eurythmics, folk dancing? Did you have to do that?
SMA: We didn=t have to, but that was fun. Lots of fun.
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SJ: Did they have any other kinds of performances besides your piano recitals? Now, I suppose the Glee Club - - -
SMA: Glee Club - - - No, I don=t think we had a Glee Club.
SJ: You just mentioned about the man who taught you.
SMA: The man who taught us was for the graduation exercises.
SJ: Oh, I see, you had a lot of singing for that.
SMA: Yes.
SJ: Did you have instruction in the flute or any of the woodwinds?
SMA: Yes, thay could have had; they did have - - - many of them.
SJ: But you didn=t, because - - -
SMA: Virginia Pfeiffer, P-f-e -i-f-f-e-r took flute.
SJ: She=s one of your classmates?
SMA: No, I believe she=s another class - - - I don=t know what happened to her.
Marie Fox was a star of Cecilia Schwab=s. Don=t you know Marie Fox? She=s around here somewhere. Lives in this parish, I think
SJ: Was that Sister Annina?
SMA: No, she=s not a sister.
SJ: Sister Annina was in music, but I don=t know whether she would have been taught- -
SMA: Inez? Did you say?
SJ: Sister Mary Inez. Yes.
SMA: She was in music and she studied with Sister Cecilia Schwab.
SJ: Did you have anything to do with the organ? Did you have to?
SMA: Not till after I graduated in music and all, and I wanted the organ because of using the organ (???) and I didn=t know too much, either. But he said I was all right. And I loved it, for sure. See, it=s the same idea - - activity or memorization - - -
I don=t think there=s any love of the art in me, or at least there=s none left. I have a fashion of hammering it out.
SJ: Your degree - - was it a music degree or a bachelor of arts degree?
SMA: Well, see, they didn=t want it to be a music degree. Now how did they work that out?
They said I had enough credits for English and French.
SJ: Oh, Sister Marie Elise Blouin?
SMA: Yes, I had four years of French. So I had enough credits to get in on a minor or major. English and French, I think that=s what they used.
SJ: So, your recollection of those as a college student at Seton Hill were- - - a lot of hard work, sometimes frustration because you felt that you were being pushed too hard, and you felt that you needed more guidance; yet you enjoyed practice - - -
SMA: I loved practice.
SJ: Loved to play, the recitals were hard. You had a lot of good times with your friends, and yet you didn=t do as many things as you would have liked to do.
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SMA: No, I didn=t have a social life that I should have had, because I was worn out, practicing. I practiced like an artist, I imagine C8 or 10 hours.
SJ: Did they have teas and receptions and thing like that?
SMA: Yes, and _____________ all dressed up for the occasion, and somebody watching over us to see that we did it right. Yes, they were- - -that way. I don=t remember
being in on that.
SIDE B
SJ: . . . of the oral history tape with Sister Margaret Anne Hanley, continued on Friday, June 15, 1984. Sister, we left off on the other side; I think, when the tape ran out You were recollecting some of your days at Seton Hill College as a young lady, before you entered the community. I have to admit to you that I did a little research last night because you were very clear in remembering such things as English degree, four years of French and I think I had asked you if you received a bachelor of music degree or a bachelor of arts degree. And you received BOTH.
SMA: Right.
SJ: You were graduated from Seton Hill College in 1924 with a Bachelor of Arts Degree.
You=re an English major and a French minor, which tells me why we have an affinity. Because I was an English major also, not French though.
SMA: I loved English. Couldn=t get enough of it.
SJ: Who taught you English? Do you remember that?
SMA; Yes, I sure do. Sister Electa Boyle!
SJ: Do you remember anything about her - - her classes? What was your favorite . . author, or favorite period in English?
SMA: I loved composition. I thought I knew how to compose.
SJ: Creative writing?
SMA: Stories.
SJ: Stories
SMA: And so I tried to latch in on Setonian, make a place for myself in there, but unfortunately, St. Electa Boyle and I didn=t get along. But luckily, she died and left the path clear for me.
SJ: But that was a long time after you were a student there.
SMA: Yes.
SJ: If you recall, she was a Chaucer. . . she did a lot with Chaucer, didn=t she?
SMA: Nothing for us.
SJ: Nothing? You didn=t have Chaucer.
SMA: No.
SJ: Did you have Shakespeare?
SMA: No, it wasn=t a literature course. It was composition.
SJ: All through the four years?
SMA: No, I signed off the second year, I think. I made the Setonian. I was tickled bout that. But my music was taking over- - hours, you know. I think I dropped the English.
SJ: Well, I think what happened, probably- - in order for you to get your degree, you would have so many courses to take and there would have been requirements. And I=m sure you would have had Shakespeare, and probably the 17th C. poets.
SMA: No, ma=am, there was nothing of that! I think I just missed it probably by signing off. I think I only had two years with Electa.
SJ: You may have had another English teacher. There was someone- -may have been before your time- - but they talk about a Mrs. Geyer.
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SMA: Don=t know her.
SJ: Don=t remember. Does the name Revihan? or Revilan?
SMA: No.
SJ: A man=s name.
SMA: Electa was my onl;y English teacher. ___________ I can say that definitely.
SJ: I see. When I checked your degree, your Bachelor or Arts degree from Seton Hill in1924, then as a novice, I suppose, or a young professedBnovice, you had five years= novitiate in those days, you finished your bachelor of music degree in 1926. So that you were keeping up with your music, I=m sure, while you were a student, but then as a Sister, as a member of the congregation, you went back and completed the requirements for the bachelor of music degree. And I looked through your file, and I found this music program - - probably your senior recital, dated
AMay 2 to May 8, 1926, Seton School of Music,@ and inside ASenior Recital@. You=re first on the billing B Sister Margaret Anne Hanley, B.A.1924, B.M.1926. Greensburg, Pa.@ And you played such things as Ramanza? by Mozart, Melody from Orpheus, by Gluck, DemBattie (two names) Zecchio Minueto by DemBattie, and the second set or section was three works by Chopin: an etude, valsay? valse.
SMA: Valse.
SJ: and scherso, and then the third section was some composer named Shutt - - -
SMA: What=s the composition?
SJ: The Tondra as You, op.43 #2.
SMA: Gone with the wind - - -
SJ: And the second was by a composer called Gadowski? __________my French is terrible!
SMA: Not bad.
SMA: You should read these! What about the next by Lizt - - -something about a garden?
SMA :Oh, Tarantella.
SJ: No, the next one.
SMA: Oh, Jardin su ________ B Gardens under the rain.
SJ: Do you remember that?
SMA: I sure do. I liked that one- - - crazy wild to memorize, though; modern harmonies.
SJ: Would they all be? Maybe they=re all modern harmonies, all those ______ compositions?
SMA: Perhaps.
SJ: And then the last one.
SMA: Tarantella, Lizt.
SJ: Do you remember that?
SMA: Oh, yes, that was fun! I loved Liszt.
SJ: Look at the rest of these names. I guess the other two - -Lenore Patricia Hickey . . . .
SMA: I remember her well.
SJ: She was one of your classmates, graduated with a Bachelor of Music in 1926, and all the pieces she played.
SMA: Yes, she was very lovely. . . .
SJ: Chopin was very popular on the program.
SMA: Yes.
SJ: I doubt that . . . well maybe Chopin would popular today, too. I don=t know.
SMA: I think so; I don=t know either, just from what I hear on the TV, I=d say yes.
SJ: Is he one of your favorite composers?
SMA: Just loved him. Difficult to memorize, but I loved him.
SJ: How did you rate Mozart?
SMA: Um, Mozart was easy to memorize Bvery formal--- formalism, I guess, and wild modern harmonies B very easy.
11
SJ: And what about Liszt?
SMA: Liszt was a wild bird, he went anywhere he pleased. It was delightful, though, just lovely. I think my pupils like Liszt better, too. Lots of spunk to him - - -What did he do for me? - - Tarantella, I guess; that was it.
SJ: That=s right. All right, now. Notice all the things she played. She did something from AThe Nutcracker Suite,@ the Flower Waltz. And Dorothy Tonsmeier?
SMA: Tonsmeier.
SJ: Tonsmeier. She came from Mobile, Alabama.
SMA: Right.
SJ: Do you remember her?
SMA: Certainly - - - She was quite a character.
SJ: Was she?
SMA: And then she entered; and loved her socks rolled when she entered.
SJ: She entered our community?
SMA: Yes
SJ: Did she really?
SMA: But she didn=t stay long, about six months, I think. I don=t really recall.
SJ: You would have been B if you entered the community on September 8, 1924, and then you would have had your postulancy and canonical novitiate. You would have been a sister. Would you have had any connection with them at - -probably not much, huh?
SMA: If I had any four years before I entered?
SJ: No, you entered in 1924. In 1926 when you had your recital, you probably wouldn=t have had too much of a relationship with either of these other two women.
SMA: Yes, I think so, because I always felt that I knew Lenore Hickey very well and Dot Tonsmeier and I were quite friendly. I took care of her in the novitiate; I guess I thought she lost her vocation, I don=t know. But she went home after a very short time.
SJ: Ah, I see.
SMA: But they were very close to me.
SJ: Would Sister - - -We were talking yesterday about Sr. Cecilia Schwab. Would she have been the instructor for all three of those seniors?
SMA: Could have been, but I don=t know whether she was or not. I don=t recall her at all.
SJ: I also found out something. I looked in Sister Electa=s book, AHistory of the Sisters of Charity in Western Pennsylvania@ and found out that Maria Caveny
SMA: Caveny.
SJ: Caveny; she graduated from Seton Hill in 1919 with a Bachelor of Music degree. And Othelia Vegel also graduated from Seton Hill. Now they were probably some of the first graduates with a Bachelor of Music degree form Seton Hill. And then I suppose from what you=re telling me, Maria Caveny came back as an instructor.
SMA: Must have.
SJ: She probably got additional work and came back again. But notice how long the program was- - -it=s a whole week, from. . Mary Miller from Salzburg?, she was a junior, and then Marcella - - -
SMA: Oh, you mean the recital.
SJ: The whole recital.
SMA: They certainly were not ordinary. They were extraordinary recitals. I thought all of them were.
SJ: How was that - - -Aextraordinary?@ WhatB -
SMA: Well, extraordinary work on them and I thought they were beautifully done. I don=t remember how mine were done, but I thought they did a wonderful job on all of them.
SJ: Were they held in Cecilian Hall, on the stage?
12
SMA: I think they were held in Sister=s teaching room- - Cecilia Schwab=s. That=s the largest room, at the end of the hall. Mine was , anyway.
SJ: It doesn=t say here. It just says, AMusic Week, School of Music, Seton Hill College.@
S it doesn=t say Cecilian Hall. There were more sophomore playing tests. One young
woman, Susan McDermott, did a Bach fugue and prelude and a Beethoven sonata, a
Paderewski and Mendelssohn number. There were six freshman, so it=s a big program.
SMA: Yes, that=s what I think. The School of Music was rapidly progressing; I think due mostly to Sister Cecilia Schwab. Caveny was on her own and a very smart woman, a very good teacher, but Cecilia had so much outside work. Where did she study? Boston?
SJ: ____________Probably.
SMA: Boston Conservatory? And she was very well equipped for this sort of thing. We were just making grades and the first time they ever did that as far as I know - - the recitals and all. But I thought they were up to snuff.
SJ: Okay. Is there anything else you remember before ... well, before 20 and 24, as a college student? You would go home on vacations, I guess, holidays. In the summer, you didn=t have to get a job or anything , did you?
SMA: In the last summer before my graduate recital, Miss Caveny, as she was then, I don=t know her married name, requested that I would take work, summer work, start me on the memorizing. The memorizing was quite stiff. It would take a long time. She didn=t know whether I could do it in a year. So she thought I=d better try some summer work. So I did.
SJ: Is that when you lived with a friend of your mother, lived in the city and went out to her, Miss Caveny=s, home in Braddock?
SMA: Yes.
SJ: I understand. But the other times you would go to your home in Coshockton? Did you go on vacations? Or. . .
SMA: Yes. I wasn=t on study work all that summer. I think I just took two or three weeks to help be sure that I could do it.
SJ: Did you ever go with your family on vacation, or did you spend the time at home?
SMA: Home.
SJ: All right. By this time- - - you were the youngest in your family, so I suppose you brothers and sisters were married? No, Veronica married late in life, didn=t she? Were the others all married?
SMA: Jerry was engaged to a Cleveand girl, which made it nice for me, because he couldn=t get to Cleveland every time he wanted to go to a dance, so he was my partner. He protected and took care of me. I had a really grown-up beau all that summer.
SJ: Oh, that was good.
SMA: that was very good.
SJ: Where would they have dances in Coshockton?
SMA: In a very cheap hall, and he said, AI=ll take care of you; don=t worry.@ So one night- - -
So you want this?
SJ: Un huh.
SMA: One night I was dancing, and Jerry, I don=t know where Jerry was, but he was there in one minute, and my dance evaporated. He said he was fresh.
SJ: You were a blonde, weren=t you?
SMA: Redhead.
SJ: Bright red hair, or - - -
SMA: Titian, we called it, to make it easier to take.
SJ: Was the whole family redheaded?
SMA: My father was, and I think the girls had a little red in their hair. Jerry was quite redheaded and he went bald the very summer he was going to be married.
13
SJ: Just like that?
SMA: Oh, I was sick for him. He=d come into my room and say, ADon=t you think that=s real hair?@ And I=d say, ANo, it=s just fuzz.@ He would be killed; he thought he was going to grow another set of hair.
SJ: Ah, but he married Aand lived happily ever after?@
SMA: And he has a woman who has the most beautiful hair in the whole world, I think- - - one wave after the other. So, I guess, that=s why he was interested.
SJ: Was he next to you, Jerry?
SMA: Yes, very close. That was always a bone of contention. For an argument B:@Which do you like best?@ and I=d say, AYou=re all just the same to me.@ You, know, I had a funny dream about that this year. I dreamed that my brother Tom was in the car, and he said to me, AYou remember that you used to say - -that you loved all of us the same? But you loved me the best when I was alone?@ And I said, AYes, I remember that.@ Is that the same now?@ I said, AYes, it=s the same now.@ And I looked up and saw the eyes of his wife (acetic?)
We never hit it, never hit it - - strange nightmare. I haven=t had a Mass said for him yet, but I=m going to. So something was the matter.
SJ: Was he the brother in the service, Tom was?
SMA: Uh huh.
SJ: Was he the one whose son was a priest?
SMA: Yes, Dexter. Dexter went out to give a sermon one Sunday morning and couldn=t get a word out, so the priest rushed up rushed him to the hospital, and he had cancer of the brain, and I don=t think he was more than 10 years.
SJ: He was a Jesuit?
SMA: Jesuit - - -He had an operation right away, followed by about 10 other operations on this same brain. He was so sweet, and such a ham, a lot of fun.
SJ: All right. Well, Sister, now. Can you remember- - - we were talking about your days in the community, or before. You graduated probably in 1924 and you entered right after that, in September. Can you think of what it was attracted you to the sisters? You would have ben taught by them, you would have seen them at Seton Hill, but was there anybody especially who made an impression on you?
SMA: My mother made the most impression on me. She said, AIf you must enter, I=d rather have the Charities.@
SJ: Is that what she said?
SMA: Uh Huh. Because the Charities are friendlier.
SJ: She would have known them from the college.
SMA: Well, I thought, AWell, what the heck, if I can please her in one thing, why not:@ So that=s at least a credit I can give the Community. But I think that=s very true. I knew and loved them and I came, that was all there was to it.
SJ: You just felt you had to come, had to enter, to be one of them.
SMA: I always wanted to be a sister from the time I was in the 8th grade. And everybody kept putting it off, of course. So I came.
SJ: You petitioned, then, after you went home, or while you were still at the Hill?
SMA: This sounds conceited. And you can=t check on it because she=s dead, but Cecilia wrote the letter. Sister Cecilia asked for me to enter; she practically wrote my petition letter and I went along with her because that=s what I wanted. I don=t think she dragged me in by any matter or means, but I want to enter.
SJ: Okay. You came back then. Did you have spiritual mothers or sponsors?
SMA: She was it.
SJ: Sister Cecilia Schwab was your spiritual mother? She helped you to get ready, the things you needed?
14
SMA: No, I got a list from the Community. . . You also know she went to another community?
SJ: She went to the Carmelites.
SMA: And I wept all that Christmas. She hadn=t told me she was going, and I didn=t know about all her heartaches over her brother.
SJ: Was that. . .were you in the Community when that happened?
SMA: Not more than two years, I think. I=m not sure.
SJ: All right. You would have petitioned. Who was the major superior then?...Mother Rose Genevieve?. . . .
SMA: Could have been.
SJ: Mother Mary Francis?
SMA: Mother Mary Francis was our mistress. Now that is someone I really truly love.
SJ: What do you remember about her?
SMA: That she had something I used to call. . .@She knows discernment of spirits,@ I used to say to myself. Because she handled each one according to what she knew about her. She didn=t treat us as a mob. We were all individuals. I thought she was perfect for our mistress . . . though I=d walk up and down outside her room about 10 times before I=d get the courage to go in, I believe that.
SJ: Where was the Novitiate then?
SMA: Third floor.
SJ: On third floor Administration.
SMA: And her room was up in Lowe Hall; . . . was it Lowe?. . .isit St. Joseph Hall or what?
SJ: St. Joseph?
SMA: St. Joseph. She lived up there in 304, I think, somewhere (around there?)
SJ: You entered with Sister Muriel? No. . .
SMA: I did.
SJ: Muriel and Joanna . . .
SMA: Yes.
SJ: Who else was in your group?
SMA: I don=t know whether Miriam Grace was in our group or followed us. She may have been a year older or younger, I can=t be sure.
SJ: Was Sister Remigius in your group?
SMA: Remigius?. . . was not a college girl. I mean, we weren=t close. No, uh, I don=t know if (she taught school??)
SJ: But Muriel and Joanna had been in the Academy.
SMA: I don=t know: I=m not sure.
SJ: . . . and in the college.
SMA: I was not in the Academy.
SJ: No, but you were in the college, and you came. . .All right. Anybody else around you in the community?
SMA: Muriel was awfully sweet. She was in charge of the college girls at night, and she would---- We were together in a double room. She walked into the place, and she said, (I never verified it.) that I=d sit up in bed, look at the clock, look at her and lie down again- - -which sounds very true, because she=d arrive in anytime between 12 and 2, and be in chapel exactly on time in the morning.
SJ: In those days that was quite early, wasn=t it?
SMA: Oh, yes.
SJ: Be up at probably, 4:30, 5:00?
SMA: I=d say 5:30 the bell and 6:00 for prayers. I=m very vague on that. I don=t know.
SJ: All right. When you came as a postulant, then, you had your degree. Were you sent out to teach, or did you have your novitiate training classes, do you remember that?
15
SMA: I tried to remember yesterday. I think I taught at Seton Hill, a follow-up; I already had pupils, I think, (that=d been to me?) And I went on with them, or with a class of harmony I was teaching at Seton Hill, but I was almost instantly also sent to St. Benedict=s to teach. Now I don=t know whether that was 1 or 2 years or no years at all, whether I just went down. But I remember this!! I was sitting in chapel for the Mass, very peacefully, so resigned to my fate, and they came up and whispered in my ear, AYou have choir practice right after Mass.@ Now, I didn=t know the children; I didn=t know where the books were; I didn=t know whether the woman who ran the organ would be up there. I didn=t know anything about singing; I had piano work, You see.
SJ: Oh, this was when you were down teaching at St. Benedict=s, or teaching in the grades?
SMA: Yes.
SJ: You were teaching piano students at St. Benedict=s, or teaching in the grades?
SMA: I don=t know. I don=t know what stage this was,=cause this is a stage all by itself when you=te told to teach singing right after Mass. So I hurried upstairs and luckily the organist ws up there - - - Hulda Quinleven(sp?)
SJ: She=s still there!
SMA: Is she?
SJ: She=s still playing the organ.
SMA: She is an angel pet lamb, so she showed me where the books were, so I gathered them up and took them downstairs for choir practice after Mass Cmy introductionCand she helped me pick out 2 or 3 hymns and we worked together very beautifully, I thought. I don=t know. Of course, Harriet followed me there, so I don=t suppose I kept any reputation. Harriet=s a dream; she=s very good.
SJ: You probably stayed on at Seton Hill for those first two years after you entered, while you were getting your education, getting your novitiate preparation training and things like that. See, our records don=t tell us too much about the sisters prior to about 1943.
SMA: Oh.
SJ: And we don=t know where they were, but the fact that you got your bachelor of music degree two years after you entered, and the fact that you were in those recitals makes me feel that you probably stayed on at Seton Hill up until about 27 or so.
SMA: 26 or so, in there.
SJ: Yes, after that, and you had your degree . . . and you mayhave been teaching right there. They probably had a program they let you . . .
SMA: (They used me on it???)
SJ: then you wnet down to St. Benedict=s maybe to teach the piano classes.
SMA: No, it was singing- - entirely different.
SJ: In the Cathedral itself? Or at St. Benedict=s Church, I guess it was then called, and went over into the school.
SMA: And then it began to be in the school rooms. I=d go around to each room and teach groups, I think.
SJ: I see.
SMA: Not real gropups, you know; I=d teach the whole class.
SJ: Yes. .? ? (Have you ever been a music teacher, school music teacher, then? ______
St. Benedict=s?)
SMA: 10
SJ: 10 years. All right.
SMA: I don=t know . . .if it was 10 or 8, you know. I don=t remember how long the singing at Seton Hill was.
SJ: And see, in those days you wold have lived at the college, lived at Seton Hill and traveled down by cab.
16
SMA: W A L K E D ! ! !
SJ: You walked. Oh, each day.
SMA: (uh huh? and home ? ? ? ______car? Carr?) Eating at second table, we called (her?)
(it?) That was great.
SJ: You probably had a lot of duties over there, too, like charges and. . .
SMA: There was something that gave me heart trouble. This little girl, Dr. Trimble=s little girl, Sally Trimble, was taking lessons and this afternoon when I was finished with her lesson, I went on with the next lesson and about two minutes later, a taxicab, I think, appeared. It was sent to get Sally Trimble and Sally was nowhere. I was sick unto death because I thought she=d been kidnapped . . . so I don=t know how I lived through the next hour; I think, Bno, I don=t think so - - -I think I just sweated it out. Now the priest=s house was very close. Now we weren=t used to running over to the priest=s house to use their phone. But I should have done that to settle my brain. Then there was another person asking for Sally. So the first one, the taxicab, I think got her. Well, I checked as soon as I went home, of course, and they said they had sent the taxicab to get her picked up and I didn=t pretend about the worry, but I was really worried about her.
SJ: She had walked home?
SMA: No, she went home in one of those things; I forget which one- - the first one that came.
SJ: that would frighten you.
SMA: Uh huh!
SJ: Did you enjoy teaching children?
SMA: I was crazy about it! - - -very much loved it!
SJ: Would you have had young children, or. . .
SMA: All ages up. I think the older ones were easier to teach. Of course, I had a few older ones who were very difficult, people who didn=t care to practice, you know. I think you remember a space like that.
SJ: Now, after St. Benedict=s - - I did check to see where some of the missions which you had gone to.
SMA: St. Stephen=s was the first one.
SJ: See, we don=t have that! The first we have in our file in 1943-48 - - - you were teaching in Pittsburgh at Sacred Heart.
SMA: Oh, golly, that=s very late.
SJ: Now, you also taught summer school at Seton Hill College, taught piano lessons at summer school, and you taught at Seton Hill in the music program. . .=42
TAPE II
SJ: Tape 2 side of a taped oral history with Sister Margaret Anne Hanley, on Friday, June 15, 1984. Sister, when we left off at the first tape, were talking about where you were on mission and I said the first record that we have is you were teaching at Seton Hill summer school
>40->43, and then >43 to >48 at Sacred Heart. Now, you remember St. Stephen=s in Hazelwood.
SMA: Oh, yes. That was very definitely a mission. I stayed there for 10 years under Mary Paul; I think that=s right. And that was a good ten years, that was >34->44. That would take you up, wouldn=t it?
SJ: Maybe 3/30/43.
SMA: Yes.
SJ: or maybe >32->42. That=s when you taught at Seton Hill. You must have come from St. Stephen=s to Seton Hill and then there was one year at Seton Hill, and then you went out to Sacred Heart.
17
SMA: I don=t remember one year at Seton Hill. I don=t remember a break to Seton Hill. I remember being changed to another mission.
SJ: You seemed to stay a long time in places.
SMA: Yes, 10 and 7 years.
SJ: And then maybe that St. Benedict=s was from about >26->32, maybe 6 years, 6 or 7 years.
SMA: I would have said 10 years; I don=t know.
SJ: These may not be . . . our records start in >42.
SMA: Well, you fix them because I=m not sure at all.
SJ: St. Stephen=s. I remember that big beautiful old-fashioned convent, and the piano was in the front room. Is that where you taught?
SMA: Where=s this?
SJ: St. Stephen=s in Hazelwood.
SMA: Oh, yes, yes.
SJ: Do you have any recollections there? Did you have some good students?
SMA: It was, uh;, singing in the rooms and it was a change. See, I was pretty well adjusted to singing in the rooms and following programs and they were not . . .I don=t know. I didn=t care for my teaching; I didn=t care for the set-up. But I think it was that mostly. The books were different; the teachers were not resigned to seeing somebody walk in to take a half hour of time, and that was what I had been used to. One or two stick our in my mind as being very friendly and glad to see a music teacher.
SJ: Was Sr. Mary Paul a good Sister Servant and principal?
SMA: Oh, laws, yes! (She had it made? - - just perfect.
SJ: Did you ever see Sister Cecilia Ward? She would have lived across the street, I believe.
SMA: Yes, I think she did, but we never saw her.
SJ: She was going to college, or teaching, maybe, at that time.
This is part of the Oral History recording done in Assumption Hall on Thursday morning, June 14, 1984, with Sister Margaret Anne Hanley. Sister Jean Augustine is conducting the interview.
SJ: Good morning, Sister Margaret Anne.
SMA: Good morning Sister. Would you like to hear something abut Sister Muriel?
SJ: No. Eventually, yes. I would like to hear about Sister Muriel; that would be very good. But one of the things I wanted to talk with you today Cremember we mentioned this oral history project that the Congregation has undertaken? We want to keep as much history as we can for the future of the Congregation. I would like to talk to you a little bit this morning about your early recollections, your earliest Balmost like an autobiography. I noticed in your file that you came to the Congregation from Coshockton, Ohio.
SMA: Right.
SJ: And our years when I used to be a piano student of yours, when I used to practice. . .
SMA: Oh, yes? I=d like to know that day.
SJ: You and I talked about your love for Ohio. Can you tell me a little about your earliest remembrances, your history?
SMA: Starting with my entrance in the community?
SJ: Oh, even before that.
SMA: Before that? We had an ordinary family, but a rather large one- - three boys and three girls. We had a delightful homelife, very close, lots of fun. I was very close to my brothers, especially; my sisters were much older. They entered the family earliest of all.
SJ: Where did you come in the family?
SMA: Last. But not least, of couse.
SJ: Of course not. You=re an Irish family?
SMA: Yes, my father was right from Limerick, Ireland, and my mother=s relations, grandmother and grandfather, were from Derry, Ireland, I think or Kerry; I don=t know which.
SJ: Your mother was born, though, in this country.
SMA: Cresson, around there.
SJ: Yes, what was her maiden name? Do you remember?
SMA: Mary O=Connor.
SJ: That=s as Irish as you can get. Your father was . . .
SMA: Thomas Hanley. Hanley is not an Irish name Bit=s more English to my mind. But they say, ANo, that=s not correct. It was straight from Ireland.@
SJ: What did your father do for a living?
SMA: Well, at his work he was a - - - - - ; he was everything. He started out on the railroad, walking on the tops of the cars till he had my mother a nervous wreck, so the urged him to get another job. Then he went into ordinary grocery store business and from there, I think, to the mill. He bought a mill in cahoots, in partnership, with another man. Finally the man dropped out and her had the whole mill which was a very small mill, a flour mill.
He had all kinds of wheat, especially.
SJ: Oh.
SMA: Oh, brother, was it good, real molasses in it!
SJ: Mixed in with the buckwheat? Isn=t that great!
2
SJ: Is that in the farm country, Coshockton?
MA: I think it definitely is. We were not farmers, but we were so closely related to them. They came down our front street and sold everything they had from the cart. So, it was like living on a farm; but she knew that farm work was too heavy for her
SJ: Was Coshockton a small town?
SMA: 12,000, it ran generally, but now it=s grown quite. I think it=s up in 30,40, 50 thousand.
But, they moved; the people we knew have moved to the elite part of town, the outside, the borders.
SJ: Your birthday, I know is in June. . . June 26. You don=t want to tell me what year?
SMA: Yes.
SJ: Will you? What year?
SMA: I=m going to be one more year in a couple weeks. That was 1903 I was born.
SJ: 1903 - - so you are going to be 81.
SMA: 81. Very good arithmetic.
SJ: Was there a Catholic parish and school?
SMA: As far as I know, and of course I wasn=t in on everything. There was a Catholic parish and we started the school when we got there. My father needed a school for his children and he was instrumental in helping to urge the priest to build a school. And we had a very small school - - Dominican sisters from Columbus, Ohio, and it went just beautifully, I think.
SJ: Was that Sacred Heart Parish?
SMA: Yes, how did you know?
SJ: I checked on your. . . I checked your dossier. Sacred Parish, Coshockton, Ohio.
SMA: Now, here=s an interesting part. They had even a three-year high school. But three years stuck with us all through my life. When it came up to high school time, I wanted a Catholic education completed. I had to go away to get a fourth year, so I went to St. Mary of the Springs, Shepherd, Ohio, and got my fourth year high. I had a complete Catholic High, and then on to Seton Hill.
SJ: I see. In that three-year high school, was that an academic high school or a commercial high school?
SMA: An academic high school, and a whiz of a teacher! She handled. . .now, don=t be shocked because I think we were well taught. She handled three years high school all by herself.
SJ: One woman?
SMA: One woman.
SJ: Taught all the subjects?
SMA: All the subjects, plus a - - - - - - - -course.
SJ: Oh, my! How large was the school? Can you think about that?
SMA: Eight grades . . . and an average of, maybe at the most, 10 pupils in a grade.
SJ: O.K. And in the High school. . . would that be about the same?
SMA: About the same.
SJ: Thirty students altogether.
SMA: At the most, I think.
SJ: And she did the whole high school part?
SMA: She did the whole high school part. But she was a brain beyond a brain.
3
SJ: And she was a Dominican? You would have had algebra, and science?
SMA: Right, we had everything, except the fourth year high, except science - - no lab.
SJ: No lab. Now, when you went to St. Mary of the Springs, that was also Dominican, and finished your fourth year of high school there.
SMA: Yes.
SJ: Was that a boarding school?
SMA: Yes.
SJ: Did the rest of your family do that?
SMA: Yes.
SJ: They went to boarding school. What about the boys?
SMA: They went to Cleveland, Ohio, to the Jesuits. . . St. Ignatius, I think.
SJ: Coshockton - - Is that in the Cleveland Diocese or Columbus?
SMA: Columbus, I think.
SJ: Columbus. Okay. Now, your music. . . do you remember when that started?
SMA: When I was seven years old. Moreover, they allowed me to practice in the convent.
It=s evident they were either deaf or far away.
SJ: Who taught you. . . one of the sisters?
SMA: Dominicans.
SJ: Was the rest of your family musically inclined, or were you the only one who wanted to take up piano?
SMA: I think Delci would have loved it; I don=t think she had the opportunity. They were in the public high.
SJ: I see. Did you have a piano at home?
SMA: Yes, not much of one, but good enough . . old, upright.
SJ: Did you practice willingly, or did your mother have to get after you?
SMA: Well, this is queer, and very good management- - - I=ve never been able to copy it. But, they allowed me to practice right in the convent.
SJ: Ah, so that=s where you got your practice in, and there was no tomfoolery there.
SMA: No, wasn=t that lovely! And I didn=t have to stop to cook or scrub, like some people I know, very close to me; there was no interference.
SJ: And you liked it very much?
SMA: Ohh! We loved it. Half the time, another girl my age, her name was Kimmie?, would come in and practice with me. We=d do duets and make it a little bit livelier.
SJ: Was the lesson a weekly lesson and a half hour?
SMA: I think it was two lessons a week, a half hour each for something like 50 cents apiece.
Wow! The way we cheated those good sisters. Nobody knew about that.
SJ: Seven - - You would have been probably in second grade.
SMA: Yes, and I=d be dismissed from the room, run around the corner and go into the convent.
SJ: Oh, in those days they allowed the children out of school for lessons.
SMA: They did, and I don=t think they lost out one speck- - -a little bit of propaganda in there.
SJ: All right. So you were interested in the piano. Did you study any other musical instrument?
SMA: No, I was at Seton Hill - - -we=d grab Sister Carinne=s violin and practice on it.
SJ: So, at St. Mary of the Springs, Shepherd, Ohio, is where you finished your fourth year.
4
SMA: That fourth year=s very interesting. It was empty, you know. And I went to St. Mary=s for the fourth year. Then the priest said, AWhat=s the matter with us? If we can send our boys and
girls away to get a fourth year, why can=t we have our own fourth year. He delivered one wonderful sermon and got his fourth year and a science lab.- - a little bit of extra money for that small town, but they did it.
SJ: And from that time on, then, on one had to leave Coshockton for a parochial high school. They could get the four years right there.
SMA: Isn=t that a great love for their religion and all - - to push them into that. I thought that was great.
SJ: Okay. Now the other- - - on this connection with Seton Hill. I=m interested in that. You lived in Ohio; your mother had come from Pennsylvania. Your father, I think you told me once, came from Ireland, and settled somewhere around.. .
SMA: Dennison, Ohio, I think.
SJ Dennison, and . . . .
SMA: And also the tops of the trains- - - Mother got him off that. In Dennison, I think he went right to the grocery store to make some money.
SJ: How did he meet your mother, then?
SMA: That was all done in Cresson, and a very interesting story. Mother=s brothers came home one day and said, @You might as well call off the wedding, Mary. Tom=s gone to Ohio.@ And that was two days before the wedding. So Mother said she was much flabbregasted, but she tried to take it easy and go on with her work. And here Dad had to go to Coshockton, Ohio, to get the Baptismal record for mother. They had to have permission from the priest to get married because they were in another. . .no, because she was underage - - 17, and he was 10 years older at least, 27 or so.
SJ: And they were married in Cresson?
SMA: They were married in Cresson.
SJ: He might have met her when he was traveling on those trains. Maybe he had stopped there.
SMA: Oh, he worked around there, too.
SJ: That=s probably it.
SMA: I think, but I=m not too sure how he met her. She was really lovely to look at. Beautiful, in fact. I looked at her picture many a day and I thought, AWho is that?@ So, one day when she was in the room, I said, AWho is that beautiful lady?@ and that tickled her to pieces.
SJ: I=m sure.
SMA: It was a portrait of her.
SJ: In your home. Well, then, you would have graduated from high school in 1919, 20, 21,
something like that?
SMA: It was a year earlier than I should have because they shortened the course; they put the 7th
5
and 8th together so we could all move on, and we didn=t seem to miss anything. I don=t know, maybe we did.
SJ: Well, then, you would have been probably one of the first students to come to Seton Hill College, because it started around 1919.
SMA: I think we were. There were four ahead of us to graduate in that first class.
SJ: In that first class. Well how did you get to know about Seton Hill? You were out in St. Mary of the Springs?
SMA: I had a dear cousin who spent the summers with me often- - - and this summer we were both out of high school and we had to find a college. So we searched the books - -AAmerica@ and all the rest of the Catholic books we had around, for ads. And we wanted, not a high rating - - we didn=t know enough to pick a college with a high ratingB just a near one to home. Ans so Seton Hill was the nearest. I would have gone to St. Mary of the Springs for college but it wasn=t quite finished. They had to have another year. Now that=s called fate, or Providence or whatever. I would have been a Dominican.
SJ: The way the Lord wants it. You know, in those days not too many women went to college.
SMA: Very true.
SJ: Was your family favorable? Did your other sisters go?
SMA: My sister Veronica was killed. She had the brains of the family, I think, and I think she was always a little jealous, but she kept it down. But she would have loved to have gone on.
SJ: And your father and mother were both very favorable. . .
INTERRUPTION
We were talking about the fact that you and your cousin had done some research to find a college. I=m interested in the fact that it had to be a Catholic college.
SMA: Well, we were both from Catholic families. Her father was my father=s brother. And my father was just rampant on the question; he had to have a Catholic college. He was very, very Catholic all his life.
SJ: All right, now, that=s interesting. You would have come about 1920, I=ll say.
SMA: Well, wait now, I entered school at 7. But we had not the regular courses, not 8 & 4, but 8 & 3. So, how much does that make?
SJ: That=s eleven years- - -1920, approximately. We can check that out later.
The college was very small B Administration Building, Maura Hall, St. Mary=s Hall.
That=s probably all the buildings that were there. Right? Maybe. . .No. . .
SMA: I don=t remember the buildings so well. We had classrooms. We went to Dr. Reeves= classroom.
SJ: You boarded there. Where did you sleep when you were in college? Do you remember?
Administration?
SMA: Administration. 2nd floor. Double room; my cousin was with me.
SJ: Who were some fo the Sisters you remember from those early days?
SMA: Schwester.
SJ: Ah, God rest her.
SMA: AGod rest her=s right.
SJ: Did she teach you?
SMA: No. She taught German. I took German later on after I was finished with a college degree.
6
I wanted to know some German. She was a wonderful teacher. Father Reeves, of course
and Father Sullivan.
SJ: Sister Francesca?
SMA: No, she didn=t teach; she was the dean. I mean I don=t know that she taught. Who else?
SJ: Would Sister Stanislaus have been there then?
SMA: Yes, but she didn=t teach me, I don=t believe. I went to her for a special course. After I went out West, I had to have history, and I didn=t have it, so I went to Stannie and she gave me a special . . .no, I was in a course with her. She had another class going and I took it.
SJ: You would have decided, when you were going to Seton Hill, to take music lessons because you had been studying it?
SMA: I think it was sort of thrust upon me by Sr. Cecilia Schwab. She used to thrust things upon people.
SJ: They would have looked at your high school record and decided.
SMA: I think it was. . . this is sort of unkind to say, but I think there was a need of building up the music academy, the music courses in Seton Hill, and they were picking out obviously easy people to teach. I could memorize easily; that=s about my only qualification for music, really.
I had Mrs. - - - -. I was practicing about 4 or 5 hours a day. That shows the interest to probably go ahead with it. And Sr. Cecilia stepped in on me and wondered why I was there so long. So she was getting my background right then. I didn=t realize it. I was rather sassy; I didn=t know she was the head of the department, and she taught me the following year. So I had her a couple of years and Mrs. Caveny? at the time.
SJ: With the music department- - -I guess Cecilian Hall would have been there, and the practice studios?
SMA: The practice suite was around it, in the back; we practiced in there.
SJ: And those rooms are still there, too, and still used.
SMA: They were well built.
SJ: Were some of the studios? I remember Sister Ann Regina=s studio used to be in the Irish Room on the parlor floor.
SMA: Yes, well, Sr. Cecilia taught in there.
SJ: In the Irish studio?
SMA: I guess she followed Sr. Ann Regina, I don=t know.
SJ: Or Sr. Ann Regina followed her, I think.
SMA: Yes, that=s right. That was her place.
SJ: Would Sister Helen Cecilia have been- - - She wouldn=t have been teaching; she was younger, about your same age.
SMA: Yes, different category. I didn=t know Helen very well at all. . .
Something running around in my mind. . . But, uh, we=ll skip it.
SJ: Some of the teachers you had?
SMA: Sr . Cecilia and Miss Caveny taught with the same idea in mind Chigh pressure. I can remember walking down the hall in a rage after one of the lessons and I ran into - - - -
who was the one in charge, little, red-haired, down in the office. . .
SJ: Eucharia?
SMA: Eucharia! I said, AWhat this place needs is a vocational advisor. I shouldn=t have been in music at all!@ And I left her staring. But that=s the way I really feel, even yet. They took us in the wrong direction- - - capable of being taught instead of based on talent or. . . .
SJ: Interest?
SMA: Maybe, but I practiced for hours, so there=s nothing the matter with my brain.
7
SJ: Did you like it? Did you like. . . .
SMA: I love music. I just loved practicing.
SJ: Do you remember some of the other teachers? I suppose they gave you instrumental lessons. You mentioned getting a violin from Sister Corinne.
SMA: That was out of the course. That was after I finished. We did that for fun one summer.
SJ: As a college student, as a young girl there, was there an orchestra?
SMA: The Glee Club was very interesting. We had a wonderful man, and copies for all of us- - -
That was a real luxury - - -to have your own copy, and he got us in part singing right away and didn=t waste time. Oh, it was lovely. Wonder he was? I don=t remember his name.
SJ: Would you have been inlee Club all four years of college?
SMA: Oh, yes.
SJ: And you had recitals, I=m sure. How did you like that?
SMA: Hated it!
SJ: But you liked to practice! Was it the pressure?
SMA: I loved to practice; there was no pressure on that.
SJ: But the other pressure - - to excel, or to be . . .
SMA: None, I mean I didn=t respond to it.
SJ: You just turned the other way.
SMA: Yeah, I just loved my work. And I didn=t care about associating with others. I had very few friends at the end of the four years because I spent my time in the music suite.
SJ: Now, were you being prepared to be a piano teacher?
SMA: No.
SJ: Just knowledge of music.
SMA: And memorize. You see, we had to memorize to perform, and we had to give a recital every year, a whole recital. So, I don=t remember much about my freshman recital, but we had to have it; I know. And sophomore, and it came to junior, the memorizing was pretty stiff. Miss Caveny thought I=d better spend the summer helping to memorize for the following year, so I did. I went to her place close to Braddock, went through East Liberty to get there, and she taught me there. So I got some memorizing started for that next year.
SJ: That summer. Did you live somewhere in Pittsburgh while you did that?
SM A: Yes, a friend of my mother, Nancy- - - Netty Brown.
SJ: Miss Caveny- - - I never heard that name, but she must have been there the whole time you were in college.
SMA: Yes.
SJ: Any other sisters that were in the music department? Cecilia Clare Ott? Would she have been in the music department then?
SMA: Yes.
SJ: Did she teach you?
SMA: No.
SJ: Sister Ann Regina?
SMA: Yes.
SJ: What about that Sister Angelica? Was she a musician?
SMA: The old Sister Angelica- - -was quite a musician, taught singing, I think. Never taught me, but everyone loved her, looked up to her. That=s about all I can remember of her.
SJ: Did you take eurythmics, folk dancing? Did you have to do that?
SMA: We didn=t have to, but that was fun. Lots of fun.
8
SJ: Did they have any other kinds of performances besides your piano recitals? Now, I suppose the Glee Club - - -
SMA: Glee Club - - - No, I don=t think we had a Glee Club.
SJ: You just mentioned about the man who taught you.
SMA: The man who taught us was for the graduation exercises.
SJ: Oh, I see, you had a lot of singing for that.
SMA: Yes.
SJ: Did you have instruction in the flute or any of the woodwinds?
SMA: Yes, thay could have had; they did have - - - many of them.
SJ: But you didn=t, because - - -
SMA: Virginia Pfeiffer, P-f-e -i-f-f-e-r took flute.
SJ: She=s one of your classmates?
SMA: No, I believe she=s another class - - - I don=t know what happened to her.
Marie Fox was a star of Cecilia Schwab=s. Don=t you know Marie Fox? She=s around here somewhere. Lives in this parish, I think
SJ: Was that Sister Annina?
SMA: No, she=s not a sister.
SJ: Sister Annina was in music, but I don=t know whether she would have been taught- -
SMA: Inez? Did you say?
SJ: Sister Mary Inez. Yes.
SMA: She was in music and she studied with Sister Cecilia Schwab.
SJ: Did you have anything to do with the organ? Did you have to?
SMA: Not till after I graduated in music and all, and I wanted the organ because of using the organ (???) and I didn=t know too much, either. But he said I was all right. And I loved it, for sure. See, it=s the same idea - - activity or memorization - - -
I don=t think there=s any love of the art in me, or at least there=s none left. I have a fashion of hammering it out.
SJ: Your degree - - was it a music degree or a bachelor of arts degree?
SMA: Well, see, they didn=t want it to be a music degree. Now how did they work that out?
They said I had enough credits for English and French.
SJ: Oh, Sister Marie Elise Blouin?
SMA: Yes, I had four years of French. So I had enough credits to get in on a minor or major. English and French, I think that=s what they used.
SJ: So, your recollection of those as a college student at Seton Hill were- - - a lot of hard work, sometimes frustration because you felt that you were being pushed too hard, and you felt that you needed more guidance; yet you enjoyed practice - - -
SMA: I loved practice.
SJ: Loved to play, the recitals were hard. You had a lot of good times with your friends, and yet you didn=t do as many things as you would have liked to do.
9
SMA: No, I didn=t have a social life that I should have had, because I was worn out, practicing. I practiced like an artist, I imagine C8 or 10 hours.
SJ: Did they have teas and receptions and thing like that?
SMA: Yes, and _____________ all dressed up for the occasion, and somebody watching over us to see that we did it right. Yes, they were- - -that way. I don=t remember
being in on that.
SIDE B
SJ: . . . of the oral history tape with Sister Margaret Anne Hanley, continued on Friday, June 15, 1984. Sister, we left off on the other side; I think, when the tape ran out You were recollecting some of your days at Seton Hill College as a young lady, before you entered the community. I have to admit to you that I did a little research last night because you were very clear in remembering such things as English degree, four years of French and I think I had asked you if you received a bachelor of music degree or a bachelor of arts degree. And you received BOTH.
SMA: Right.
SJ: You were graduated from Seton Hill College in 1924 with a Bachelor of Arts Degree.
You=re an English major and a French minor, which tells me why we have an affinity. Because I was an English major also, not French though.
SMA: I loved English. Couldn=t get enough of it.
SJ: Who taught you English? Do you remember that?
SMA; Yes, I sure do. Sister Electa Boyle!
SJ: Do you remember anything about her - - her classes? What was your favorite . . author, or favorite period in English?
SMA: I loved composition. I thought I knew how to compose.
SJ: Creative writing?
SMA: Stories.
SJ: Stories
SMA: And so I tried to latch in on Setonian, make a place for myself in there, but unfortunately, St. Electa Boyle and I didn=t get along. But luckily, she died and left the path clear for me.
SJ: But that was a long time after you were a student there.
SMA: Yes.
SJ: If you recall, she was a Chaucer. . . she did a lot with Chaucer, didn=t she?
SMA: Nothing for us.
SJ: Nothing? You didn=t have Chaucer.
SMA: No.
SJ: Did you have Shakespeare?
SMA: No, it wasn=t a literature course. It was composition.
SJ: All through the four years?
SMA: No, I signed off the second year, I think. I made the Setonian. I was tickled bout that. But my music was taking over- - hours, you know. I think I dropped the English.
SJ: Well, I think what happened, probably- - in order for you to get your degree, you would have so many courses to take and there would have been requirements. And I=m sure you would have had Shakespeare, and probably the 17th C. poets.
SMA: No, ma=am, there was nothing of that! I think I just missed it probably by signing off. I think I only had two years with Electa.
SJ: You may have had another English teacher. There was someone- -may have been before your time- - but they talk about a Mrs. Geyer.
10
SMA: Don=t know her.
SJ: Don=t remember. Does the name Revihan? or Revilan?
SMA: No.
SJ: A man=s name.
SMA: Electa was my onl;y English teacher. ___________ I can say that definitely.
SJ: I see. When I checked your degree, your Bachelor or Arts degree from Seton Hill in1924, then as a novice, I suppose, or a young professedBnovice, you had five years= novitiate in those days, you finished your bachelor of music degree in 1926. So that you were keeping up with your music, I=m sure, while you were a student, but then as a Sister, as a member of the congregation, you went back and completed the requirements for the bachelor of music degree. And I looked through your file, and I found this music program - - probably your senior recital, dated
AMay 2 to May 8, 1926, Seton School of Music,@ and inside ASenior Recital@. You=re first on the billing B Sister Margaret Anne Hanley, B.A.1924, B.M.1926. Greensburg, Pa.@ And you played such things as Ramanza? by Mozart, Melody from Orpheus, by Gluck, DemBattie (two names) Zecchio Minueto by DemBattie, and the second set or section was three works by Chopin: an etude, valsay? valse.
SMA: Valse.
SJ: and scherso, and then the third section was some composer named Shutt - - -
SMA: What=s the composition?
SJ: The Tondra as You, op.43 #2.
SMA: Gone with the wind - - -
SJ: And the second was by a composer called Gadowski? __________my French is terrible!
SMA: Not bad.
SMA: You should read these! What about the next by Lizt - - -something about a garden?
SMA :Oh, Tarantella.
SJ: No, the next one.
SMA: Oh, Jardin su ________ B Gardens under the rain.
SJ: Do you remember that?
SMA: I sure do. I liked that one- - - crazy wild to memorize, though; modern harmonies.
SJ: Would they all be? Maybe they=re all modern harmonies, all those ______ compositions?
SMA: Perhaps.
SJ: And then the last one.
SMA: Tarantella, Lizt.
SJ: Do you remember that?
SMA: Oh, yes, that was fun! I loved Liszt.
SJ: Look at the rest of these names. I guess the other two - -Lenore Patricia Hickey . . . .
SMA: I remember her well.
SJ: She was one of your classmates, graduated with a Bachelor of Music in 1926, and all the pieces she played.
SMA: Yes, she was very lovely. . . .
SJ: Chopin was very popular on the program.
SMA: Yes.
SJ: I doubt that . . . well maybe Chopin would popular today, too. I don=t know.
SMA: I think so; I don=t know either, just from what I hear on the TV, I=d say yes.
SJ: Is he one of your favorite composers?
SMA: Just loved him. Difficult to memorize, but I loved him.
SJ: How did you rate Mozart?
SMA: Um, Mozart was easy to memorize Bvery formal--- formalism, I guess, and wild modern harmonies B very easy.
11
SJ: And what about Liszt?
SMA: Liszt was a wild bird, he went anywhere he pleased. It was delightful, though, just lovely. I think my pupils like Liszt better, too. Lots of spunk to him - - -What did he do for me? - - Tarantella, I guess; that was it.
SJ: That=s right. All right, now. Notice all the things she played. She did something from AThe Nutcracker Suite,@ the Flower Waltz. And Dorothy Tonsmeier?
SMA: Tonsmeier.
SJ: Tonsmeier. She came from Mobile, Alabama.
SMA: Right.
SJ: Do you remember her?
SMA: Certainly - - - She was quite a character.
SJ: Was she?
SMA: And then she entered; and loved her socks rolled when she entered.
SJ: She entered our community?
SMA: Yes
SJ: Did she really?
SMA: But she didn=t stay long, about six months, I think. I don=t really recall.
SJ: You would have been B if you entered the community on September 8, 1924, and then you would have had your postulancy and canonical novitiate. You would have been a sister. Would you have had any connection with them at - -probably not much, huh?
SMA: If I had any four years before I entered?
SJ: No, you entered in 1924. In 1926 when you had your recital, you probably wouldn=t have had too much of a relationship with either of these other two women.
SMA: Yes, I think so, because I always felt that I knew Lenore Hickey very well and Dot Tonsmeier and I were quite friendly. I took care of her in the novitiate; I guess I thought she lost her vocation, I don=t know. But she went home after a very short time.
SJ: Ah, I see.
SMA: But they were very close to me.
SJ: Would Sister - - -We were talking yesterday about Sr. Cecilia Schwab. Would she have been the instructor for all three of those seniors?
SMA: Could have been, but I don=t know whether she was or not. I don=t recall her at all.
SJ: I also found out something. I looked in Sister Electa=s book, AHistory of the Sisters of Charity in Western Pennsylvania@ and found out that Maria Caveny
SMA: Caveny.
SJ: Caveny; she graduated from Seton Hill in 1919 with a Bachelor of Music degree. And Othelia Vegel also graduated from Seton Hill. Now they were probably some of the first graduates with a Bachelor of Music degree form Seton Hill. And then I suppose from what you=re telling me, Maria Caveny came back as an instructor.
SMA: Must have.
SJ: She probably got additional work and came back again. But notice how long the program was- - -it=s a whole week, from. . Mary Miller from Salzburg?, she was a junior, and then Marcella - - -
SMA: Oh, you mean the recital.
SJ: The whole recital.
SMA: They certainly were not ordinary. They were extraordinary recitals. I thought all of them were.
SJ: How was that - - -Aextraordinary?@ WhatB -
SMA: Well, extraordinary work on them and I thought they were beautifully done. I don=t remember how mine were done, but I thought they did a wonderful job on all of them.
SJ: Were they held in Cecilian Hall, on the stage?
12
SMA: I think they were held in Sister=s teaching room- - Cecilia Schwab=s. That=s the largest room, at the end of the hall. Mine was , anyway.
SJ: It doesn=t say here. It just says, AMusic Week, School of Music, Seton Hill College.@
S it doesn=t say Cecilian Hall. There were more sophomore playing tests. One young
woman, Susan McDermott, did a Bach fugue and prelude and a Beethoven sonata, a
Paderewski and Mendelssohn number. There were six freshman, so it=s a big program.
SMA: Yes, that=s what I think. The School of Music was rapidly progressing; I think due mostly to Sister Cecilia Schwab. Caveny was on her own and a very smart woman, a very good teacher, but Cecilia had so much outside work. Where did she study? Boston?
SJ: ____________Probably.
SMA: Boston Conservatory? And she was very well equipped for this sort of thing. We were just making grades and the first time they ever did that as far as I know - - the recitals and all. But I thought they were up to snuff.
SJ: Okay. Is there anything else you remember before ... well, before 20 and 24, as a college student? You would go home on vacations, I guess, holidays. In the summer, you didn=t have to get a job or anything , did you?
SMA: In the last summer before my graduate recital, Miss Caveny, as she was then, I don=t know her married name, requested that I would take work, summer work, start me on the memorizing. The memorizing was quite stiff. It would take a long time. She didn=t know whether I could do it in a year. So she thought I=d better try some summer work. So I did.
SJ: Is that when you lived with a friend of your mother, lived in the city and went out to her, Miss Caveny=s, home in Braddock?
SMA: Yes.
SJ: I understand. But the other times you would go to your home in Coshockton? Did you go on vacations? Or. . .
SMA: Yes. I wasn=t on study work all that summer. I think I just took two or three weeks to help be sure that I could do it.
SJ: Did you ever go with your family on vacation, or did you spend the time at home?
SMA: Home.
SJ: All right. By this time- - - you were the youngest in your family, so I suppose you brothers and sisters were married? No, Veronica married late in life, didn=t she? Were the others all married?
SMA: Jerry was engaged to a Cleveand girl, which made it nice for me, because he couldn=t get to Cleveland every time he wanted to go to a dance, so he was my partner. He protected and took care of me. I had a really grown-up beau all that summer.
SJ: Oh, that was good.
SMA: that was very good.
SJ: Where would they have dances in Coshockton?
SMA: In a very cheap hall, and he said, AI=ll take care of you; don=t worry.@ So one night- - -
So you want this?
SJ: Un huh.
SMA: One night I was dancing, and Jerry, I don=t know where Jerry was, but he was there in one minute, and my dance evaporated. He said he was fresh.
SJ: You were a blonde, weren=t you?
SMA: Redhead.
SJ: Bright red hair, or - - -
SMA: Titian, we called it, to make it easier to take.
SJ: Was the whole family redheaded?
SMA: My father was, and I think the girls had a little red in their hair. Jerry was quite redheaded and he went bald the very summer he was going to be married.
13
SJ: Just like that?
SMA: Oh, I was sick for him. He=d come into my room and say, ADon=t you think that=s real hair?@ And I=d say, ANo, it=s just fuzz.@ He would be killed; he thought he was going to grow another set of hair.
SJ: Ah, but he married Aand lived happily ever after?@
SMA: And he has a woman who has the most beautiful hair in the whole world, I think- - - one wave after the other. So, I guess, that=s why he was interested.
SJ: Was he next to you, Jerry?
SMA: Yes, very close. That was always a bone of contention. For an argument B:@Which do you like best?@ and I=d say, AYou=re all just the same to me.@ You, know, I had a funny dream about that this year. I dreamed that my brother Tom was in the car, and he said to me, AYou remember that you used to say - -that you loved all of us the same? But you loved me the best when I was alone?@ And I said, AYes, I remember that.@ Is that the same now?@ I said, AYes, it=s the same now.@ And I looked up and saw the eyes of his wife (acetic?)
We never hit it, never hit it - - strange nightmare. I haven=t had a Mass said for him yet, but I=m going to. So something was the matter.
SJ: Was he the brother in the service, Tom was?
SMA: Uh huh.
SJ: Was he the one whose son was a priest?
SMA: Yes, Dexter. Dexter went out to give a sermon one Sunday morning and couldn=t get a word out, so the priest rushed up rushed him to the hospital, and he had cancer of the brain, and I don=t think he was more than 10 years.
SJ: He was a Jesuit?
SMA: Jesuit - - -He had an operation right away, followed by about 10 other operations on this same brain. He was so sweet, and such a ham, a lot of fun.
SJ: All right. Well, Sister, now. Can you remember- - - we were talking about your days in the community, or before. You graduated probably in 1924 and you entered right after that, in September. Can you think of what it was attracted you to the sisters? You would have ben taught by them, you would have seen them at Seton Hill, but was there anybody especially who made an impression on you?
SMA: My mother made the most impression on me. She said, AIf you must enter, I=d rather have the Charities.@
SJ: Is that what she said?
SMA: Uh Huh. Because the Charities are friendlier.
SJ: She would have known them from the college.
SMA: Well, I thought, AWell, what the heck, if I can please her in one thing, why not:@ So that=s at least a credit I can give the Community. But I think that=s very true. I knew and loved them and I came, that was all there was to it.
SJ: You just felt you had to come, had to enter, to be one of them.
SMA: I always wanted to be a sister from the time I was in the 8th grade. And everybody kept putting it off, of course. So I came.
SJ: You petitioned, then, after you went home, or while you were still at the Hill?
SMA: This sounds conceited. And you can=t check on it because she=s dead, but Cecilia wrote the letter. Sister Cecilia asked for me to enter; she practically wrote my petition letter and I went along with her because that=s what I wanted. I don=t think she dragged me in by any matter or means, but I want to enter.
SJ: Okay. You came back then. Did you have spiritual mothers or sponsors?
SMA: She was it.
SJ: Sister Cecilia Schwab was your spiritual mother? She helped you to get ready, the things you needed?
14
SMA: No, I got a list from the Community. . . You also know she went to another community?
SJ: She went to the Carmelites.
SMA: And I wept all that Christmas. She hadn=t told me she was going, and I didn=t know about all her heartaches over her brother.
SJ: Was that. . .were you in the Community when that happened?
SMA: Not more than two years, I think. I=m not sure.
SJ: All right. You would have petitioned. Who was the major superior then?...Mother Rose Genevieve?. . . .
SMA: Could have been.
SJ: Mother Mary Francis?
SMA: Mother Mary Francis was our mistress. Now that is someone I really truly love.
SJ: What do you remember about her?
SMA: That she had something I used to call. . .@She knows discernment of spirits,@ I used to say to myself. Because she handled each one according to what she knew about her. She didn=t treat us as a mob. We were all individuals. I thought she was perfect for our mistress . . . though I=d walk up and down outside her room about 10 times before I=d get the courage to go in, I believe that.
SJ: Where was the Novitiate then?
SMA: Third floor.
SJ: On third floor Administration.
SMA: And her room was up in Lowe Hall; . . . was it Lowe?. . .isit St. Joseph Hall or what?
SJ: St. Joseph?
SMA: St. Joseph. She lived up there in 304, I think, somewhere (around there?)
SJ: You entered with Sister Muriel? No. . .
SMA: I did.
SJ: Muriel and Joanna . . .
SMA: Yes.
SJ: Who else was in your group?
SMA: I don=t know whether Miriam Grace was in our group or followed us. She may have been a year older or younger, I can=t be sure.
SJ: Was Sister Remigius in your group?
SMA: Remigius?. . . was not a college girl. I mean, we weren=t close. No, uh, I don=t know if (she taught school??)
SJ: But Muriel and Joanna had been in the Academy.
SMA: I don=t know: I=m not sure.
SJ: . . . and in the college.
SMA: I was not in the Academy.
SJ: No, but you were in the college, and you came. . .All right. Anybody else around you in the community?
SMA: Muriel was awfully sweet. She was in charge of the college girls at night, and she would---- We were together in a double room. She walked into the place, and she said, (I never verified it.) that I=d sit up in bed, look at the clock, look at her and lie down again- - -which sounds very true, because she=d arrive in anytime between 12 and 2, and be in chapel exactly on time in the morning.
SJ: In those days that was quite early, wasn=t it?
SMA: Oh, yes.
SJ: Be up at probably, 4:30, 5:00?
SMA: I=d say 5:30 the bell and 6:00 for prayers. I=m very vague on that. I don=t know.
SJ: All right. When you came as a postulant, then, you had your degree. Were you sent out to teach, or did you have your novitiate training classes, do you remember that?
15
SMA: I tried to remember yesterday. I think I taught at Seton Hill, a follow-up; I already had pupils, I think, (that=d been to me?) And I went on with them, or with a class of harmony I was teaching at Seton Hill, but I was almost instantly also sent to St. Benedict=s to teach. Now I don=t know whether that was 1 or 2 years or no years at all, whether I just went down. But I remember this!! I was sitting in chapel for the Mass, very peacefully, so resigned to my fate, and they came up and whispered in my ear, AYou have choir practice right after Mass.@ Now, I didn=t know the children; I didn=t know where the books were; I didn=t know whether the woman who ran the organ would be up there. I didn=t know anything about singing; I had piano work, You see.
SJ: Oh, this was when you were down teaching at St. Benedict=s, or teaching in the grades?
SMA: Yes.
SJ: You were teaching piano students at St. Benedict=s, or teaching in the grades?
SMA: I don=t know. I don=t know what stage this was,=cause this is a stage all by itself when you=te told to teach singing right after Mass. So I hurried upstairs and luckily the organist ws up there - - - Hulda Quinleven(sp?)
SJ: She=s still there!
SMA: Is she?
SJ: She=s still playing the organ.
SMA: She is an angel pet lamb, so she showed me where the books were, so I gathered them up and took them downstairs for choir practice after Mass Cmy introductionCand she helped me pick out 2 or 3 hymns and we worked together very beautifully, I thought. I don=t know. Of course, Harriet followed me there, so I don=t suppose I kept any reputation. Harriet=s a dream; she=s very good.
SJ: You probably stayed on at Seton Hill for those first two years after you entered, while you were getting your education, getting your novitiate preparation training and things like that. See, our records don=t tell us too much about the sisters prior to about 1943.
SMA: Oh.
SJ: And we don=t know where they were, but the fact that you got your bachelor of music degree two years after you entered, and the fact that you were in those recitals makes me feel that you probably stayed on at Seton Hill up until about 27 or so.
SMA: 26 or so, in there.
SJ: Yes, after that, and you had your degree . . . and you mayhave been teaching right there. They probably had a program they let you . . .
SMA: (They used me on it???)
SJ: then you wnet down to St. Benedict=s maybe to teach the piano classes.
SMA: No, it was singing- - entirely different.
SJ: In the Cathedral itself? Or at St. Benedict=s Church, I guess it was then called, and went over into the school.
SMA: And then it began to be in the school rooms. I=d go around to each room and teach groups, I think.
SJ: I see.
SMA: Not real gropups, you know; I=d teach the whole class.
SJ: Yes. .? ? (Have you ever been a music teacher, school music teacher, then? ______
St. Benedict=s?)
SMA: 10
SJ: 10 years. All right.
SMA: I don=t know . . .if it was 10 or 8, you know. I don=t remember how long the singing at Seton Hill was.
SJ: And see, in those days you wold have lived at the college, lived at Seton Hill and traveled down by cab.
16
SMA: W A L K E D ! ! !
SJ: You walked. Oh, each day.
SMA: (uh huh? and home ? ? ? ______car? Carr?) Eating at second table, we called (her?)
(it?) That was great.
SJ: You probably had a lot of duties over there, too, like charges and. . .
SMA: There was something that gave me heart trouble. This little girl, Dr. Trimble=s little girl, Sally Trimble, was taking lessons and this afternoon when I was finished with her lesson, I went on with the next lesson and about two minutes later, a taxicab, I think, appeared. It was sent to get Sally Trimble and Sally was nowhere. I was sick unto death because I thought she=d been kidnapped . . . so I don=t know how I lived through the next hour; I think, Bno, I don=t think so - - -I think I just sweated it out. Now the priest=s house was very close. Now we weren=t used to running over to the priest=s house to use their phone. But I should have done that to settle my brain. Then there was another person asking for Sally. So the first one, the taxicab, I think got her. Well, I checked as soon as I went home, of course, and they said they had sent the taxicab to get her picked up and I didn=t pretend about the worry, but I was really worried about her.
SJ: She had walked home?
SMA: No, she went home in one of those things; I forget which one- - the first one that came.
SJ: that would frighten you.
SMA: Uh huh!
SJ: Did you enjoy teaching children?
SMA: I was crazy about it! - - -very much loved it!
SJ: Would you have had young children, or. . .
SMA: All ages up. I think the older ones were easier to teach. Of course, I had a few older ones who were very difficult, people who didn=t care to practice, you know. I think you remember a space like that.
SJ: Now, after St. Benedict=s - - I did check to see where some of the missions which you had gone to.
SMA: St. Stephen=s was the first one.
SJ: See, we don=t have that! The first we have in our file in 1943-48 - - - you were teaching in Pittsburgh at Sacred Heart.
SMA: Oh, golly, that=s very late.
SJ: Now, you also taught summer school at Seton Hill College, taught piano lessons at summer school, and you taught at Seton Hill in the music program. . .=42
TAPE II
SJ: Tape 2 side of a taped oral history with Sister Margaret Anne Hanley, on Friday, June 15, 1984. Sister, when we left off at the first tape, were talking about where you were on mission and I said the first record that we have is you were teaching at Seton Hill summer school
>40->43, and then >43 to >48 at Sacred Heart. Now, you remember St. Stephen=s in Hazelwood.
SMA: Oh, yes. That was very definitely a mission. I stayed there for 10 years under Mary Paul; I think that=s right. And that was a good ten years, that was >34->44. That would take you up, wouldn=t it?
SJ: Maybe 3/30/43.
SMA: Yes.
SJ: or maybe >32->42. That=s when you taught at Seton Hill. You must have come from St. Stephen=s to Seton Hill and then there was one year at Seton Hill, and then you went out to Sacred Heart.
17
SMA: I don=t remember one year at Seton Hill. I don=t remember a break to Seton Hill. I remember being changed to another mission.
SJ: You seemed to stay a long time in places.
SMA: Yes, 10 and 7 years.
SJ: And then maybe that St. Benedict=s was from about >26->32, maybe 6 years, 6 or 7 years.
SMA: I would have said 10 years; I don=t know.
SJ: These may not be . . . our records start in >42.
SMA: Well, you fix them because I=m not sure at all.
SJ: St. Stephen=s. I remember that big beautiful old-fashioned convent, and the piano was in the front room. Is that where you taught?
SMA: Where=s this?
SJ: St. Stephen=s in Hazelwood.
SMA: Oh, yes, yes.
SJ: Do you have any recollections there? Did you have some good students?
SMA: It was, uh;, singing in the rooms and it was a change. See, I was pretty well adjusted to singing in the rooms and following programs and they were not . . .I don=t know. I didn=t care for my teaching; I didn=t care for the set-up. But I think it was that mostly. The books were different; the teachers were not resigned to seeing somebody walk in to take a half hour of time, and that was what I had been used to. One or two stick our in my mind as being very friendly and glad to see a music teacher.
SJ: Was Sr. Mary Paul a good Sister Servant and principal?
SMA: Oh, laws, yes! (She had it made? - - just perfect.
SJ: Did you ever see Sister Cecilia Ward? She would have lived across the street, I believe.
SMA: Yes, I think she did, but we never saw her.
SJ: She was going to college, or teaching, maybe, at that time.
Original Format
Audio cassette tape
Duration
31:01
31:06
31:02
31:03
31:06
31:02
31:03
Bit Rate/Frequency
96kHz
Collection
Other Media
Citation
Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill, “Oral History: Sister Margaret Anne Hanley,” Collections of the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill Archives, accessed April 26, 2024, https://scsharchives.com/items/show/667.
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